he following comments have been submitted by readers of the book and visitors of this web site. If you would like to add your own feedback, please click here.

	Michael Holmes from Hamburg, Germany
	August 4, 2008 8:33 am Dear Mr. Zimbardo, Your book deeply touched me, because I myself have experienced the power of evil situations and ideologies. I was a member of a radical marxist sect for about 10 years. I admired mass murderers like Lenin or Milosevic. I justified dictatorships like the one in Cuba and brutal military campaigns like the soviet invasion of Afghanistan. And I was full of hatred against the "enemies of the people", the ones I labelled 'greedy capitalists', 'imperialists' and so on. All this was not because of my character. In everyday life, I have all the time been a nice and likeable person, except of course for my intolerance towards political dissent. The problem was that all my friends and all those I admired were "revolutionary" and so were all the books I read. I know that I could have easily killed anyone I considered to be a fascist, if only in a situation and in a position to do so. And a fascist, you know, was pretty much everyone somehow right wing, however moderate or democratic. So how did I manage to get out? Well, I met a victim of Mao's cultural revolution. Her father was tortured to death while she was being humiliated in school, a teenager back then. Talking to her changed my life. When I talked to my comrades about what she told me, they refused to listen and started discrediting me. If I had only betrayed her memory, her pain, I could have kept my friends. But it was too late. I knew it was a lie and started reading about Mao's China. The moment almost all of my friends turned my back on me, some calling me a traitor, was one of the most terrible and at the same time most beautiful moments of my life. For the first time I felt very alone - and very free. Well, I found lots of new friends, and better ones, and I don't care who violates human rights, left or right, I will speak out against it whenever and wherever I can. Thank you for writing this book. I hope it will help me find the strength to resist evil - next time I get the chance. Best, Michael Holmes

	Ray from Michigan
	August 1, 2008 11:44 am I am no scholar, yet I think of myself as a student of life. I love to learn and this book has a tremendous amount of knowledge. I was one of those that said it couldn’t happen to me; but to understand and learn that I would most likely be influenced by situational or system forces is wisdom that I cannot and must not ignore. I am surely going to use this book and the accompanying website as a foundation for change. I do have to admit though, through no fault of yours, I found myself rereading some of the text. I think the reason for this, was that I really wanted to understand what you were stating, not just reading to get through the book. This book sparked something within me that has been dormant for many years or never truly existed, to simply ask why. I don't think we question the system; most of us simply abide by and live within any given system. The Lucifer Effect thoroughly explores a multitude of systems and situations where only a select few ask why. I think more to need to ask that question, we cannot let these systems and situations influence our lives to the degree in which they do. I agree with your thoughts on allowing the system and situation to become a part of the defining of one’s actions, especially in law. Shouldn’t the law change as we change as a society? As the human race evolves, and I am speaking about just the person, the human being, so should the system and situation. I want to be an agent of change; I want to ask why and not just ask but ACT. Simply disagreeing with something is not enough (similar to what you said), we need to act, do something, gather people and resources and make a plan for change and then move forward. Always moving forward. Thank you for sharing all that you did. You have truly changed my life.

	Olof Jebram from Germany
	July 3, 2008 11:43 am Greetings Dr.Z. This is coming from the same university-class Anna Frohberg is in. Thanks for your reply. Maybe we might be so bold as to ask more questions: Question 1.): If the behaviour of the guardians of Abu Ghraib was highly shaped by situational and systemic influences, wouldn't the same be true for the agents and leaders of the system behind Abu Ghraib? Shouldn't we examine the situation of Bush, Cheney, Rice, with the same care and precision? For example: The Bush family is part of the US economy, has partners, friends, and interests, so there is much room for influences, like friends making demands, buisness associates making suggestions, bosses giving friendly advice, etc.. Question 2.): What is your opinion on prisons? Should they be abolished? Do you see alternatives? Is there a better way to deal with convicted offenders? Best regards and a safe travels to germany, Olof Jebram, Miriam Henke, Dietmar Gölitz

	Sherron Watkins from Houston, Tx
	June 23, 2008 12:25 am Hey Dr. Z.... love the book and will be referring to it in upcoming lectures. Sorry about the mis-information from Margaret from Palo Alto; I was certainly not granted immunity from prosecution. I did sell $47k of stock and options in the fall of 2001; months after I'd found the fraud; but after Skilling quit the company and after 9/11 - (both events prompted many people to sell Enron and/or stock to raise cash). I did know more about Enron and its state than the purchaser of my shares, for which I regret, but such is the case in nearly all employee sales of stock. Why did Time magazine notice us in 2002?... b/c we tried to stop behavior that was wrong. In the end, the lesson for folks considering telling 'truth-to-power' ... is to be careful, your profile will be raised and many will want to find less than admirable reasons for your stance. I think we've failed as a society when we require or need 'hero's' or truth-tellers to stop the madness or at least aide in the prosecution of the madness... b/c in the end, those that take a stand (like the 'man in the arena'), also have chosen to take audience criticism, and most of us did not ask for the praise or the criticism (like me, they get 'outed' by someone in Congress, or the media, or an employer). The system has failed when truth tellers, whistleblowers, or 'rebels' are needed. I hope you're enjoying even a larger audience for your messages; they are spot on. All my best, Sherron
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo July 1, 2008 Dear Sherron, Thanks for taking the time to rebut your critics on this web site. It is tough to be a hero these days with so many ready to find faults in whistle blower histories or motivations. We need to encourage everyone to be willing to engage their heroic imagination into decisive heroic actions, as you have done. The world, and now especially the USA,needs more heroes with the courage of their convictions to oppose corruption, fraud, bullying and evil in its many masks. Continue to fight the good fight, Ciao, Dr. Z.

	Anna Frohberg from Germany
	June 19, 2008 11:50 am Dear Dr. Z., thank you for writing your highly enlightening book! We have been working with and discussing it since April in our psychological university-class for teachers and even though we've already learned a lot there are some questions left we would like to ask you. One important question is: To what extend could it be possible that some results of the SPE were "mis"-used for the war on terror, e.g. in the prison of Abu Ghraib?
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo July 1, 2008 Dear Anna delighted you have organized a Lucifer discussion session check out www.prisonexp.org for my discussion questions about the experiment. yes I think the US military used the SPE 's results in Abu Ghraib prison, giving guards almost total power over the prisoners with no oversight or surveillance -> abuses the worse in both prisons were on the night shift when there was little or no supervision. good news. German translation will be published soon in mid July I am lecturing on evil and Lucifer at the International Congress of Psychology in Berlin July 20-25 my talk is July 23 at 10 am check web for venue regards Dr. Z.

	Mark from UK
	May 27, 2008 8:34 am I've just finished reading your book and found it very interesting. There's just one thing I'd like to ask - it may have been covered in the book and I perhaps didn't pick up on it. My question is - to what extent to you believe the political/social/religious convictions of individuals in "bad" situations "set them up" to either succumb to situational forces, or prime them to resist? My thinking on this is that for example, someone who is politically/socially conservative may be psychologically normal and law-abiding. However, they may have world-views leading them to think that criminals or potential terrorists forfeit their human rights, which may lead them in a prison situation to abuse prisoners. Alternatively, they may have religious views giving them the conviction and strength of character to resist situational influences. To what extent to you believe these factors influence situation-based behaviour?
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo June 7, 2008 Mark Glad you found TLE interesting, hope you also have explored all the goodies on this web site. I like your point, and agree with its premise, that political/religious/ social systems create beliefs and conditions that "setup "good people" do evil deeds, without awareness of the moral nature of their actions. It is the nature of our belief systems that justify and rationalize our actions as acceptable to us and "our kind" when under any higher moral standard they would be evaluated as immoral, unethical and maybe illegal. the SITUATION is socially constructed and cognitively maintained in the minds of the actors on its stage, but always supported or challenged by the Power System, from behind the curtains. warm regards Dr. Z.

	ginger from san mateo
	May 26, 2008 10:49 am check this out.... you were obviously pissed at that other girl Margie? but..... she may be right. http://blog.kir.com/archives/2007/10/the_faux_enron_1.asp but in the end who cares. Sherron is obviously nuts and unethical.... you are self aware, and the ones of us that follow you are on the self awareness path. But to use the words back off..... eeeeck. Sherron was given immunity from a felony.... is that really enough to "charge" that girl like a "running of the bulls". I'm kidding! I just illustrate the absurd in order to make my pathetic point. http://blog.kir.com/archives/2007/10/the_faux_enron_1.asp
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo June 7, 2008 Ginger I would not judge Sherron Watkins as "nuts" maybe unethical maybe an opportunist who helped herself while helping to shut down an evil-generating corporation. You can't be a hero who is concerned with self-profit as part of your motivation. See my Chp 16 in TLE for that clear qualification to the criteria for everyday heroes. Ciao from Sicily Dr. Z.

	ginger from stanford
	May 26, 2008 10:17 am read your stuff obviously. To tell margaret to back off.... you do realize that Sherron Watkins did commit a felony and was given immunity .... right? Thats well known. She committed insider trading fraud, its well known. But if that bothers you, ask yourself why? This is well known and well published. I love all that you had otherwise said. Sherron Watkins committed a felony that was not prosecuted. If you want to talk to Margaret personally about it email her.... I think she is right and maybe you stepped over the line. Is it possible you did not know the immunity from the felony Sherron Watkins had committed and you "stepped over the line". ?
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo June 7, 2008 Ginger when I wrote my book, I did not have access to the info on Watkins Non-Hero status. I have obviously removed her from our hero site and consider her more of an opportunist than a whistle blowing heroine. that is what makes the study of heroes interesting, complex phenomenon with cultural and historical constraints to consider thanks for helping to keep me honest Dr. Z

	Kamila from Poland
	May 13, 2008 6:32 am Dear Mr Professor, as a student of linguistic I had only a short coure of psychology but it was very interesting (I'd say even more - it was intriguing) mainly thanks to your textbook "Psychology and Life" :) Having read your overview about "The Licifer Effect" I am also very eager to read it. Best wishes :) Looking forward to see you in Warsaw this Friday, Kamila, Poland
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo June 7, 2008 Kamila Hope you attended my lecture in Warsaw It was very exciting for me to be there and meet with many students, faculty and media The Polish translation of my book will appear in September I think you will enjoy it. ciao Dr. Z

	Jess from Southern Minnesota
	April 22, 2008 9:26 am Hello, I had an experience yesterday that may not seem to dramatic to some but I just thought that you might like to hear that you reached someone with your book and it caused me to rethink how I handled a situation I found myself in. I was driving home when I came around a turn and found a house engulfed in flames. My first reaction was to tell myself that it wasnt really a house but maybe a large burn pile a farmer had going, and not to worry about it, that it was a controlled fire. then I told myself someone had to already know about the fire and was doing something to help, then as I watched two cars in front of me drive past without so much as touching their brakes, it hit me that they were probably all thinking the same thing as I was. I decided to call 911. It turned out that the fire had not yet been reported. I am in the middle of reading your book. I really feel that it was a factor in how I handled that situation because as soon as I had the thought that someone else was probably already doing something I instantly thought of what you said about that and I re-thought what my responsibility was to that situation. I am sure you are praised all the time for your work but I thought you might like to hear about how you touched my life. I know that this wasn't as dramatic as some stories that Im sure you have been told but what really hit me, was my first instinct to let someone else call and this has really bothered me and made me stop and think about who I really am as a person. I dont know if I would have made the call if I had not been reading about this. Also I have never read a book that actually affected me in my life and changed the course of my actions. So thank you. Jess
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo April 22, 2008 Dear Jess, I want to thank you deeply for sharing this personal experience with me. It is what makes being a researcher and writer so meaningful when on those rare occasions what one does has an impact on people in the "real world." When I was writing my book, I wondered if anyone would read it, would take to heart its messages, and then would go the next step to put the abstract ideas into practice. You validated it all! To know that I touched your life is so rewarding, and in turn, you should know that your action as a concerned citizen might have saved lives of people in that fire or kept it from spreading further by your timely action. Some times such small actions can have major positive benefits. Indeed, it qualifies as an act of "ordinary heroism," which is my next project. Please check out my Lucifer web, and feel free to keep in touch when you finish the whole book. Ciao, Phil

	Brandon McIntosh from U.S.A, North Carolina
	April 9, 2008 4:38 pm Hi, I am a psychology student at Western Carolina University, I have not yet read The Lucifer Effect. But I am a fan of your work and look forward to reading it. My professor in history of psychology has given us a term paper on a history of a famous psychologist. I recomened your name even though it wasnt on the list. You may know him his name is Dr. James Goodwin, he was the president of the historical branch of the A.P.A.
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo April 27, 2008 Brandon Yes I know Dr. Goodwin, fine expert on the history of our field. I am flattered you chose to do your term paper on me. Do read Lucifer, check out my various webs for info starting here with About Phil Zimbardo, it will lead you to my home web site, zimbardo.com which has the start of an autobio. wish you well Dr. Z.

	Richard Thiang from Vancouver
	April 8, 2008 7:57 pm Dear Dr Zimbardo, I thank you for a very interesting perpective on the nature of evil. I have just arrived at page 180, before the debriefing of the prisoners. At this point, where I have only read a nearly unbiased account of the experiment, I would like to write down some of my thoughts. I feel that the empirical evidence of the experiment hardly supports your main thesis - that it is the 'bad barrel' that causes 'good apples' to turn bad. This interpretation of the results seems rather naive to me, i.e. blame everything on the system. In fact, your fundamental assumption that all the student subjects are 'good apples' is falacious. They are definitely not similar, as exhibited by the wide spectrum of dispositional behaviors in both the guards and prisoners. The correct interpretation of the experiment should be that a 'bad barrel' reveals the true disposition of apples. In a 'good barrel', all the apples have been socialised to behave according to a set of societal norms. Provided that these apples do not have anti-social tendencies, their true disposition is often veiled by societal norms. A 'bad barrel' is simply a situation where societal rules and norms are removed, as in a prison setting or during a war. In the absense of law and enforcement, the true disposition of the apples are revealed. Hellmann and Burdan revealed their sadistic natures. The rest of the guards revealed their malleable nature in going along with their leaders. The main lesson that we should all derive from this experiment is that a civil society needs humane and compassionate rules - rules that are well-enforced. This is because there many, many apples out there that are readily disposed towards evil, if left without guidance, or checks on their power. Fortunately, there are also the few rare 'good apples' that show us the light in the darkest of times - people like Sarge, *salute*. A more interesting continuation of this study would be to determine what factors make a person more disposed towards evil. Is this person an extrovert? Does he seek attention? Is he an alpha-male? Does he need to dominate? Sincerely, Richard Thiang
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo April 27, 2008 Dear Richard, I appreciate your constructive criticism and resonate most with your concluding paragraphs on The Main Lesson is how to enable our society to develop-- and practice-- more humane and compassionate rules. I disagree with your insistence on the dispositional analysis of evil and taking evil-generating situations off the hook because not everyone in them is equally affected. In all the exps. I detail in chapters 12 and 13 it is always the MAJORITY who obey, comply, yield, cross the line. Of course there are individual differences, but they represent the default value when faced with powerful situational forces. Ciao, Dr. Z.

	Peter Darby from Wales, UK
	April 1, 2008 8:31 am I have just finished the book, and already find it's informing my outlook on many issues. I am on the committee of a national home education charity, and often we find ourselves asking "Why are local government officers consistently overreaching their remits? Why is bullying constantly present in schools, by both students and staff, aimed at both students and staff? Is it really less prominent in home ed communities or are we missing something?" Recently on a popular discussion board that I follow(http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010103.html#010103) the question was asked "Why do private security guards believe they can ask you to stop photographing public spaces and even delete the pictures from your camera?" From a similar position, discussing how to moderate a children's internet discussion board, how to make sure the moderators understood the limits of their responsibilities and powers.... And every time, I'm thinking "The guys in power who are overstepping the mark... these are the nice guy students from Stanford turned guards... They're not a priori bad, many of them have been cut loose by their management..." Sure, few of the situations are approaching the toxicity of the Stanford Prison (though I have my doubts about schools... especially in Britain where a "targets culture" has moved management away from personal governance to optimisation of statistics), but still the people are being led by the situation into behaviours they would not exhibit outside of that situation. Thanks for providing me with an excellent set of tools for my mental toolkit.

	Charlie Delgado from Oregon
	March 27, 2008 9:32 am Dear Phil: On page 406 of your book, you state: ' On Trial: Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld' ' Rumsfeld told the Senate Armed Services Committee: "These events occurred on my watch. As Secretary of Defense, I am accountable for them. I take full responsibility." 'HRW asserts that "Secretary Rumsfeld should be investigated for war crimes and torture by US troops in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Guantanamo under the doctrine of 'command and responsibility.' Secretary Rumsfeld created the conditions for troops to commit war crimes and torture by sidelining and disparaging the Geneva conventions. He did so by approving interrogation techniques that violated the Geneva conventions as well as the Convention against Torture and by approving the hiding of detainees from the International Committee of the Red Cross." ... You make an excellent point here, but another point must be made in reference to Donald Rumsfeld's "admission." Donald Rumsfeld's admission was a farce. Even though Donald Rumsfeld admitted to being "responsible," he faced no recriminations, criminal charges, or punishment. Why? As for example in the case of the "Ice Man," (photo on page 410), MURDER was committed on his watch, --and, I might add --with Rumsfeld's blessing. Yet, no murder charges were ever filed, and no sentence for murder was ever carried out against Donald Rumsfeld! Instead, Donald Rumsfeld has won a salaried contract with, and joined, the elite faculty of Stanford University and has been added to the faculty roster of the Hoover Institution there, which now employs Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice --another war criminal! What a joke! According to the Nuremberg Charter, Judgment, and Principles, and under the guidelines and restrictions of the Nuremberg Trials, Donald Rumsfeld is a War Criminal! No nation on Earth can hold the United States accountable for war crimes as Nazi Germany was held accountable for war crimes at the end of World War II. Only the American people, or, failing that, the people of the world, can hold the United States accountable for war crimes perpetrated against the people of Iraq, including, but not limited to, those war crimes perpetrated at Abu Ghraib. The second point I would like to make here is that Donald Rumsfeld had both SPECIFIC PERSONAL knowledge and INSTITUTIONAL knowledge of the torture that was going on at Abu Ghraib before, during, and after it took place, and failed to take corrective action. Instead, he contributed to the commission of these crimes! First, Donald Rumsfeld had INSTITUTIONAL knowledge because, as you note on page 407, "The Department of Defense was repeatedly warned about torture and abuse of detainees by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) in May and July 2003 (prior to the public expose at Abu Ghraib) and again in February 2004." In addition to that, the Pentagon had both constructive and institutional knowledge that the conditions at Abu Ghraib were ideally suited to torture before the torture took place at the hands of U.S. forces. It was known by the Pentagon and the CIA that Abu Ghraib prison was used for torture by Saddam Hussein, and this took place with the full knowledge and blessing of the CIA, prior to its being occupied by U.S. forces following the invasion of Iraq in 2003. The institutional knowledge that the Pentagon had prior to the torture taking place at Abu Ghraib began with the Stanford Prison Experiment (SPE) itself, which was both commissioned and funded by the Department of the Navy, as you stated in your book. Whether or not that study was still in the possession of the Department of the Navy when the Abu Ghraib atrocities began under the command of Donald Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense, the Navy should have learned from it, and did learn from it, as evidenced by the SERE program. And legally, since The Navy had constructive knowledge, then the Pentagon also had constructive knowledge. Donald Rumsfeld was the head of the Pentagon, as Secretary of Defense, and therefore he also had constructive knowledge. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld had specific personal knowledge of the abuses that were taking place at Abu Ghraib, and failed to take corrective action, because, as you note on page 406, he "approv[ed] interrogation techniques that violated the Geneva Conventions as well as the Convention against Torture and by approv[ed] the hiding of detainees from the International Committee of the Red Cross." The American people must hold Donald Rumsfeld accountable for his actions. Nazi war criminals were hanged for committing similar offenses, and those laws are still on the books! On the other hand, if the American people do not hold Donald Rumsfeld accountable for these horrific crimes --including murder --no one will. And sadly, it does not look like any people anywhere will hold him accountable. Not, at least, in his lifetime. And the same goes for the other high level perpetrators of these war crimes committed at Abu Ghraib and throughout Iraq by U.S. forces. If not Donald Rumsfeld, then who will hold America responsible, and who will be forced to pay for these crimes? I shudder to think, for this is the legacy that we are leaving to our children and our grandchildren. Thank you for all you do and keep up the good work!
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo April 27, 2008 Charlie If you examine the results of my Virtual Voting Booth, the vast majority of site visitors agree with you and me that he and the other architects of torture are guilty of command responsibility violations and should be dealt with as such. My central point is that Accountability must accompany Responsibility and thus personal liability attends such failures of responsibility. Rumsfeld should be in a prison cell next to the Army Reserve MPs whose policies led them down the slippery slope of evil. Ciao, Dr. Z.

	Sarah from England.
	March 23, 2008 7:40 pm 18th of march at the Emmanuel Centre in London! One of the best days :) its was like truely inspirational, and now i really want to buy your book. sadly i didnt get to get a picture with you :( but i did get a picture of you! From now on i am definatly going to "search for the hero inside myself"! hahha! loved it.
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo April 27, 2008 Sarah it was a great time for me also, what a tremendous reception by 1000 UK high school students--on each of two days. Eager for return engagement. check out the many good features on this web site and enjoy Lucifer. ciao Dr. Z.

	M.R.Srinivasan from India
	March 1, 2008 9:41 am I'd been through the narration in this website, and I feel the participants in this endeavor of yours were only play-acting , aware as they were of your project's raison d'etre by the process of selection as part of an academic study.Having said that, the subject of 'crime and punishment' is a catch 22 stuff,having to deal with hardened criminals/ inveterate delinquents of all types,and balance the need to administer adequate correctional & rehabilitative measures in the interest of both the offender and community of which he's a member. Criminal jurisprudence should use modern scientific principles and less dehumanizing process of investigations in the true spirit of the U.N. Conventions on human dignity and right to life,etc.When the State itself is a party to being the ruthless oppressor of human rights by framing of enabling rules/regulations of prisoner-investigations,such evil-minded & beastly actions on the part of the minions of law- enforcement in the name of 'getting at the truth'turn out to be a license with impunity ! Sensitivity to human concerns must be 'top-down'to rid the scourge of human depravity,tinged with sadistic impulses.As a specialist in the field,I guess, you'll agree.

	Charlie from Oregon
	February 27, 2008 9:24 pm Hi Phil, Since I was a Poli Sci major, I focus on the 'bottom line' for me: People in positions of responsibility need to be held responsible. --like Bush, Rumsfeld, Sanchez, Myers, etc., as mentioned in the book. Criminal charges should be filed, these guys should have been arrested long ago, and they should all be --in jail --pending trial! The torture and abuses that went on at Abu Ghraib was intentional! The critical detail that points to this fact in your book is the fact that your SPE was funded by the Department of the Navy! I contend that --if they should have known, they did know. They did know. The question of why they are not in jail is another problem. Suffice it to say that the Evil in "The System" that you have identified in your book is mych more pervasive than you allude to in your book! I don't believe they should be water-boarded, --just put in 24/7 solitary confinement under bright lights, a surveillance camera, and have to sit on a stainless steel toilet with no toilet seat in front of the camera, and have their every move recorded on film! I have reason to believe I was under political surveillance by the FBI while I was saying this. Many Thanks, Charlie

	Ilhan Niaz from Islamabad, Pakistan
	February 23, 2008 12:51 pm Dear Dr. Zimbardo, I've finished reading the Lucifer Effect and I must say it is absolutely essential reading for all social scientists. What happened in Rwanda in the 1990s happened in India-Pakistan in 1947 when the two countries were partitioned along religious lines out of the British Empire in India. About a million people died and some twenty million were displaced in that communal holocaust which saw neighbors of different religious persuasions who had lived, dined, and socialized together for over a century of British rule (Sikhs, Muslims, Hindus) butcher, rape, and displace each other. At a more mundane level, I can relate to it personally. Many of the people I know were or are members of the power elite in Pakistan and your diagnosis applies to them almost perfectly. I have also researched their behavior from a historical perspective to further my understanding of the crisis of governance in my part of the world and part of the problem is that the amiable and articulate gentlemen who quote Voltaire and Milton and play golf at the club are the same people who in their official capacities often behave like mafia dons. I have seen this take place amongst several of my circle of friends and acquaintances who have joined the military or police or other sectors of the state apparatus as well. Even the best of them fall into the category of "good guards" - i.e. they do no harm but also do not, or cannot stop their colleagues from causing harm, the evil of inaction. The systemic pressure is too great. The difference is in magnitude-our culture of power and historical experience of the state is very different from that which exists in the United States- and therefore the lucifer effect is far more readily demonstrable in India/Pakistan than it would perhaps be in the US. In this part of the world practically every prison and many a police station is an Abu Ghraib/Gitmo. I think the Lucifer Effect and its perspective can be used to explain history far better than many existing frameworks. Perspectives such as Fukuyama's End of History hypothesis or Huntington's Clash of Civilizations are woefully superficial in contrast precisely because they are dispositional in their analyses. It is ultimately a question of personal interest but I hope that you or your colleagues may consider developing the Lucifer Effect into a philosophy of history or analysis of state psychology. That would be a tremendous contribution. Wishing you all the best, Ilhan Niaz Islamabad, Pakistan

	Richard Domencic from Pennsylvania
	February 22, 2008 4:47 pm Dear Dr. Zimbardo: Last spring I wrote a very positive review of your book on this website and thanked you for your humane insights. The high regard I hold for your work remains. I have just completed Naomi Klein's very disturbing new book "The Shock Doctrine," a revealing look at what she calls disaster capitalism. Her research, perspectives, and presentations on torture bring a further dimension to what you offer in your book. That dimension is its use in producing the necessary kind of shocks/traumas to support disaster capitalism as expressed by the Milton Friedman University of Chicago school of economics philosophy. It is based upon "wiping the slate clean" by way of disasters or violent shocks. She begins with the shock treatment experiments supported by the CIA in the 40's, 50's and the development of their interrogation -- nay, torture -- manuals and the adoption of such techniques by other countries. Klein further details how the shock resulting from natural disasters pose wonderful opportunities for the furtherance of the privatization of the operations of countries, the abolition of free trade, the cutting of taxes and social services, and the pillage of the resources of countries for the benefit of a wealthy minority....while increasing the breadth and depth of poverty exponentially. I would be very interested in your view of Klein's work from the perspective of The Lucifer Effect. Thanks again for your contributions and maintaining this forum.

	Kathy Butler from Washington state
	February 14, 2008 4:47 pm The same year as the Stanford experiment, I was a secondary school teacher in Australia. I had read about the "blue eyes, brown eyes" experiment in a Reader's Digest article, and decided to share it and try it out on my "smartest" 7th grade English class: it was too disturbing to repeat--in only 50 minutes some students were brought to tears, became nauseated, etc. A few weeks later I enrolled in a drama workshop where the leader used role playing to show its effect on the psyche: I was a "Yank", had to sit in a chair without moving my head, and two Aussie girls were told to walk circles around me saying anything they wanted about how much they hated Yanks. At first, it was insincere and like a game. But as the minutes past the remarks became more harsh, severe, truly hateful--sincerely so. I began to shake all over. The moderator stopped the "experiment", held my hand and asked me to describe what I was feeling: it was several minutes before I could stop shaking and crying. In 1974 I went to Japan and became involved in a fundamentalist Christian group that I began to realize had cult-like methods: I was almost completely brainwashed: almost, because I remembered the experiments in 1971. Because I brought my friends into this church, I stayed to "protect" them for almost 25 years. I have not been with them since 1998: those I helped are also no longer there; those I could not help, are still there. It was the knowledge of the mechanism that gave me power over it.

	Z.C. from USA
	February 13, 2008 2:08 am I haven't read your book but I know that what you speak of in the book was already known by other previous psychologists in our history. I am talking about the very concept. I also want to ask you why you chose the word "luciferic" to describe evil. Surely this points out to a christian viewpoint. Many luciferians feel harmed by that book. As a psychologist you should of picked a more "scientific" word to describe this effect. Was it only for the appeal of the crowd that the decision was made? Please explain why a person such as yourself would view reality in a "dogmatic" way.

	Emmanuel Lee from Chicago, IL
	February 12, 2008 2:38 am Hello. I just saw your interview on the Colbert Report, and I heard an interesting comment you made about the cause of Lucifer's fall from grace. You said that because God put all angels under the authority of Adam, a mortal being, Lucifer refused, and everything evil sprung from that incident. From Biblical study, your premise is flawed. In a study of Biblical chronology, Satan came to Adam and Eve as a serpent, indicating he had already fallen before the creation of Adam and Eve. Specifically in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28, Satan's sin was listed. It was pride. He thought so highly of himself that he figured he could rule as God. However, your premise, as I said, was flawed from the beginning. This fall took place before the creation of Adam, and Satan sought to usurp Adam's authority. Adam, however, was not resisted for being mortal. God made Adam immortal, incorruptible, and stipulated that he was to abstain from eating of the tree of knowledge (firsthand experience) of good and evil (not of moral understanding, but of experience of good and bad times); God told Adam that if he ate from the tree God commanded him not to, he would die. Death did not come as a result of Adam's being created, but for Adam's disobedience to direct orders. For you to say Lucifer didn't want Adam as a governor due to his mortality is the key flaw in your argument, and doesn't hold water in a theological debate. I would be very wary of basing a book on this flawed premise, and even further, I would hate to have a theology that allowed sympathy for the reprobate enemy of God; that is a very strong foothold Satan uses in his deception-- it's always the little stuff that leads on to big stuff... Just thought you should know. If you want real Biblical understanding in context, I highly recommend this ebook: http://www3.calvarychapel.com/library/smith-chuck/books/wtwict.htm Thank you for your time, and take care.

	Louis Mensing from Oregon
	February 2, 2008 10:07 pm I and two Inmate friends are about to read The Lucifer Effect and really need a vocabulary definition list to help our reading and discussions so we do not get overwhelmed by the difficulty. We are doing the discussions by mail as of course we can not simply sit together and discuss the material. Thank you for any help you could give us in locating a dictionary or similar help. Sincerely, Louis Mensing
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo February 6, 2008 Louis, I wrote Lucifer for the general public not for professionals. The main part of the book is on my prison study, 9 chapters, and there is no jargon or psych terms there. Not until the next chapters do I introduce the psychological explanations and always try to define each term as I use them. I do not have a definitions listing. there is a big index of all terms at the back of the book so you can find where each term is used. Hope you enjoy it and learn from my book. also check out all the good stuff on this web site Dr. Z.

	Joshua Hockett from Wisconsin
	February 2, 2008 5:03 pm I first got word about your book when I passed over your face on a C-SPAN peice about you and your book. I recognized your face right away having taken a couple personality psychology classes as an undergraduate (I am actually a Kinesiology student now pursuing an MS) Having has a small nack for wanting to know how people think, interact, react and adapt to the world around them caused me to stop and watch the segment. It might have been some 20 minutes at most but in that time I found myself very deeply intrigued by the stance and insights you gave about your book and its purpose. Having learned about the SPE in class had provided me with some insights to what you were discussing already. But to hear that your book offerd much more then the video had to offer was indeed compelling. Enough so that I did ask for your book as a Christmas gift this past Dec. I am all but 3 chapters away from closing it up. Even now I have done a complete 180 on my perspectives of human relationships and interactions with both people and their environments. My regrets now stem from not knowing what I know now after having read your book. Your book challenges, enhances and modifies known theories of self-serving bias, self-effacing bias, locus of control, social learning, and dispositional tendancies to name just a few. I have but two comments to enforce before leaving off: All undergraduate sociology and psychology students should read this book and secondly is my own curiousity as to how I can apply the concepts of "not bad apples, but bad barrles" to the domains of sports and exercise science?
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo February 6, 2008 Dear Joshua Thanks for this very supportive feedback, I think you will find those last 3 chapters are the pay back for enduring the long journey through the first 13. The last chapter, 16, has become my favorite and should give you new ideas about heroism. Lucifer is now in Paperback and is cheap, so yes I hope it gets adopted for college courses, as you suggest. I don't know enough about your areas of interest to give specific advice. The key is adopting a Systems perspective and giving up the excessive individual focus. warm regards Dr. Z.

	margaret from palo alto
	January 27, 2008 4:16 am aside from my noticing you did not know or recognize how to spell my name, (your busy and I understand .... I go to Stanford too) But ggoogle your name with Sherron. you are such a brilliant man... and think after carefully reviewing the problems you'll agree with me... she was no angel, Andy Fastow deceived everyone, and god only knows what else. But I have admired you so much, for so long, your a hero and legend yourself.... why in the world would you defend some opportunistic (if you had done some academic review) like Sherron Watkins. I idolize you but it sadly reminds me of all the books , magazine articles and press just jumping on the Bush bandwagon for war. However in your case... you jumped on the self serving Sherron bandwagon. I read all these cases very seriously.... I knew more than you when you published your book. Whats the deal? After looking over the evidence you could not possibly call her a hero or whistlblower. In fact she got immunity from going to prison. Do felons meet the criteria you call "heros".... and if so , why?
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo January 29, 2008 DEAR MARGARET, I am indeed sorry for mis-spelling your name, It was my mother's name, so it is not that I did not recognize it, I was likely exhausted and not paying as close attention as I should have. Regarding the Sherron Watkins debacle, what else do you want me to do other than remove her photo for my photo gallery and no longer consider her a hero? I read her book, spoke with her in person, read the TIME magazine piece extolling her as one of three women whistle blowers, that was all there was at the time I wrote my book. I did not do exhaustive research because there was much more of vital interest then SW. I am glad you have done the research and are correcting the misrepresentation. However, I take offense at your last sentence of calling a felon a hero. You have crossed the boundary of becoming offensive. Back off. Dr. Z.

	mohikanis from Canada
	January 25, 2008 5:07 pm Just last evening a 17-year-old with Down's Syndrome was tormented verbally and then physically by his hired "teacher associate" during a field trip for the accredited school where I work as a teacher. I was driving the van in which fourteen passengers, including the victim and harrasser, were riding. Then on CBC in Canada I heard about the Lucifer effect. I think this information is going to impact the way I treat students. Already I have discussed the van incident with two other staff members, and we are in the process of ensuring that senior administration is aware of the behaviours of our teacher associate. Unfortunately, this individual is probably not alone in his unacceptable treatment of the lad with Down's syndrome. Possibly the whole staff can participate in training which may cause each of us to re-evaluate our responses to certain students in our school.
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo January 29, 2008 Dear Mohikanis I am pleased that my CBC interview made you aware of the way usually good people, kids and adults, can easily slip into dehumanizing and teasing and bullying others. It does take a call to vigilance of the System to declare no tolerance for such abuses for it to be challenged. Please read my Lucifer book, especially the final chapter. I wish you well in seeing this matter through to a humane conclusion. Dr. Z.

	Cathy Smith from Alberta Canada
	January 24, 2008 6:56 pm I heard an interview today with Mr. Zimbardo on CBC radio. It was very interesting and I intend to read the book, The Lucifer Effect. One comment that you made caused me to think immediately of CAN WE BE SAINTS by Frank Duff the founder of the Legion of Mary. It is a tought provoking and inspiring book on the call of all mankind to be GOOD not evil! Blessings to you Cathy Smith
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo January 29, 2008 Cathy Glad you enjoyed my CBC interview.I am amazed at how much interest it has stirred up judging from all the emails I have gotten from across Canada. Current One must be a popular radio program. I will indeed buy and read Duff's book, on your recommendation. Hope you like my Lucifer and enjoy the goodies in this web site. Dr. Z.

	Suz from Connecticut
	January 1, 2008 11:57 am I am writing to thank you, deeply, for your fine work of art known as "The Lucifer Effect". I recently purchased this book at the suggestion of a friend and practicing therapist in Ireland. She and I met via the internet and share a common bond, that of survivors of adoption. She is an adoptee and I am a mother who lost her child to adoption in 1986 after a five month stay in a maternity "home". She knows my story well, my experience of being interned in the home, being threatened with lawsuits and worse if I did not surrender my first born child to a baby broker. She knows of the twenty something years I have spent in therapy from resulting PTSD and immense shame and guilt over the relinquishing of my daughter to adoption. For years I have wondered how a "good Catholic girl..and honor student...with such high potential" could leave a three day old child in the hands of complete strangers. Had I done so in a mall, I would have been arrested. However, since I did so in a hospital, three days post partum, under the guise of adoption, it was deemed morally acceptable. Call it adoption, pretty it up as some will, but for me it was at traumatic experience that has left a permanent wound on my soul. I have been able to forgive many of the players in this horrible play but I could never, ever, forgive myself. I should have known better, I should have been stronger. I should have never left my child. For years I was told to put blame on the system, the church, society and the constructs of same (and its views on single, unwed mothers). I could not. I signed those papers, not Father Pcolka out of Holy Name, not my mother, not some stranger on the street. ME. Now, today, after reading your book, I see the larger system at play. I see how alienating a young girl, locking her up, removing her from the only familiar faces and support system she had and daily telling her she was worth nothing, played a part - a large part - in my psyche at the time. More importantly, I see how all actors in the system contributed to the decision I ultimately made and am held accountable for. A decision that forever changed my life path and that of my first born child. Thank you. You may have just saved me many hours in therapy. While I have an excellent therapist (with whom I intend to share my thoughts of your book with), this reading, this research, this explanation you provided has produced quite the breakthrough for me. Thank you. From the bottom of my scarred heart and soul, thank you. Suz Bednarz -- The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.- Friedrich Nietzsche
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo January 29, 2008 Dear Suz, Letters like yours make my efforts so much more worthwhile and will keep me going when things get tough. That decision you made as a young girl was not out of your free will, it was determined,controlled, seduced out of you by a System with many seemingly good people working in complicity to achieve their goal -- of getting a baby to sell and not having to deal with your issues directly. It is sad that you lost your child and sadder that you have had to suffer so long from the guilt of a decision that was systemic and not dispositionally generated. I love the Nietzsche quote, did not know it but will use it in my lectures. It is time for you to take joy in your life, to put the past in its proper place and become an ordinary hero focusing on helping others in whatever way your talents and energy lead you. it is also time for scarred hearts to heal and become vibrant. OK?? Dr. Z.

	Anna from United Kingdom
	December 24, 2007 1:47 pm My partner and I are currently reading the same copy of 'The Lucifer Effect' (I lent the book to him on a train and he's been reading it whenever I'm not since) and are finding it incredibly interesting and insightful. As a Psychology student, I had read about the SPE before buying the book, but never in such detail as 'The Lucifer Effect' goes in to. I was interested to read further on the SPE as in the area of Social Psychology I'm focusing in, the experiment is one of a few that are referred to and referenced most frequently. Aswell as an in-depth look inside the SPE, told by the man himself which was also an exciting aspect of the book, I've found the other chapters of the book interesting - though somewhat unsettling at times! It challenges a reader to look inside themselves and admit they don't really know themselves in extreme circumstances such as the ones exemplified in 'The Lucifer Effect'. However, I believe it's this better understanding and self-realisation that the book details in a clear and concise manner, which may endeavour to help a wider understanding of the same issues. Here's to Chapter Sixteen!
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo December 27, 2007 Dear Anna Your thoughtful feedback is a Christmas gift to me because your reaction is what I had hoped to elicit during the grueling process of writing this SPE memoir and expose of the evil situation and system operating at Abu Ghraib prison. Yes the real heart of my book is in Chapter 16, on resisting influence, promoting civic virtue and encouraging the heroic imagination. Please explore this web site fully, there is much here and we update sections of it regularly, and get friends to visit it as well. You made my day Dr. Z.

	Cristina Poponete from Romania via The Netherlands
	December 4, 2007 10:55 am Dear Prof. dr. Zimbardo, First of all I would like to thak you again for yours book of social psychology sent to me with time ago. Was helpful to understand better what is all about today. 1. I saw just yours Google conferences but I hope that soon I shall read the book too. I am a little bit confused about yours explanation. You say in yours Google youtube conference that “the situation corrupted the soldier’s behavior”. I am just thinking that the situation is a little bit too abstract. Is not the way the soldiers perceived their situation there, which gave them the Luciferic sensation of total power on those human beings? I mean being aware (more or less) of all the limits of the situation which can induce such a sensation…You speak about “powerful situation forces” which can transform a person. But power is a concept which has signification just in human mind. People invest with power …Is not the power which makes you to raise the hand and beat nor the situation, is you, as a consequence of how you think and perceive you, in yours pretended "superiority". This makes sense to me rather because you say at the beginning that in human being is always the struggle for good or evil and later you change the register toward the situation and the forces created. If in each human being is the raise and the fall too why the forces outside human can explain all these? Because Chip was a normal person we should not question the today’s normality, after all? 2. You insisted on the fact that these were weekend soldiers. So is not in fact the corruption which can arise when the incompetents are posted in higher functions than their knowledge and moral values? 3. I can accept the social psychological argument of “the need to be as the group”, but is not the moral guardian (the conscience) who can make you to question the situations and the acts? So I dare to ask a little bit forward: today after yours work and conclusions what system can offer this heroic, altruistic education for children? Have blessed Holydays with love and peace!
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo December 20, 2007 Dear Cristina Thank you for these interesting points of view. I do hope that you will read The Lucifer Effect, some answers are contained there in more detail than I can offer here. A quick reply: My emphasis on highlighting how external social situations can influence human behavior is presented to balance the excessive focus in psychology and in most explanations of complex actions on The Person, on his or her Dispositions, genes, character, etc. Such views ignore or minimize the influences of group dynamics, authority power, rules, roles, diffusion of responsibility, dehumanization, deindividuation and other social variables acting in particular behavioral settings on those within its psychological sphere of influence. We are also influenced by the nature of our physical environment, but the social environment is socially constructed. Those forces are especially powerful in new, unfamiliar settings where our learned, habitual ways of responding are not readily activated or are not relevant. Situations influence behavior to varying degrees, nevertheless, Individuals are still personally accountable under law for their actions. The MPS at Abu Ghraib were Army Reservists with minimal training for their job in a combat zone. In addition, they received no oversight, surveillance or support by superiors, ever. They were instructed rather to help military intelligence, the CIA and civilian interrogators from the CACI organization to help them to "break" the prisoners, to prepare them for interrogation, to "take the gloves off," in short to abuse them- and they did that. Morality becomes "disengaged" in some situations, enabling good people to do evil, and then return to their ordinary values and state of mind when outside that situation, according to the theory and research by Albert Bandura--check it out on Google- Moral Disengagement." Regards to you and Happy Holidays. Dr. Z.

	Kathy Kimber from California
	November 27, 2007 11:12 am I've been following the SPE for decades now and am really glad that the book has finally come out. What I want to know is whether any indepth follow-up studies have been done of the student participants. How did the study effect them over the long term? Did they having lasting effects, either positive or negative? Did they change their political/cultural views on things like psychology, prisons, punishment, etc. after their participation. I saw the comment that they seemed to have no lasting traumatic aftermath but I'm more interested in how participation might have changed their psychological, emotional, spiritual, cultural orientation. Thanks. Wonderful work and *really* difficult at the same time.
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo December 20, 2007 Dear Kathy Glad you asked about the fate of the students in the SPE. I devote much of a chapter in the Lucifer Effect to that issue, please read it in depth. There were no negative effects beyond those they experienced while in that unusual setting, little carry over to their everyday lives. Some were indeed affected- for the better, such as prisoner 8612, Doug Korpi, the first to break down, whose whole life since then has been to work within the Corrections system in California, helping both prisoners and guards to suppress sadism and to promote personal dignity. I also describe in detail the effect that study had on the researchers and others connected with it. Wish you well. Dr. Z.

	Marie from the East Coast
	November 16, 2007 9:21 pm Thanks for writing The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil. I see the effects of pernicious institutional forces everyday--in a public school, no less, where administrators tell teachers daily that they are being "investigated" because a child claimed all his papers weren't graded or a parent stormed the office in anger because "My child deserved a better grade!" Teachers are routinely interrogated by groups of hostile administrators in meetings that may last up to several hours, driven to re-grade papers until the child gets the appropriate grade, and required to attend conferences every time a student or parent complains. The psychological abuse that happens during those meetings is eerily similar to the directives the guards gave to the misbehaving inmates in your study. The effects are demoralized, frightened teachers who ingratiate themselves to children, parents, and administrat ors, teachers who inflate grades, and teachers who often leave the "profession" shortly after entering it. Most of us teachers and administrators, I'm sure, consider ourselves compassionate, self-sacrificing individuals who work hard to support children and the educational process; most of us would, I expect, vehemently deny being controlled by anyone who was not "acting in the best interest of the child." My guess is high-stakes testing may not be the sole reason the schools are hemorrhaging qualified teachers and stable students.
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo December 20, 2007 Dear Marie; sorry for the belated reply, just finished writing a new book on the psychology of Time Perspective, to be published in August, 2008, took a lot of time and energy. Your point is well taken and is very distressing. In our current climate in the U.S., parents and students are putting excessive pressure on school administrators to upgrade students' performance evaluations, to change grades and less than glowing recommendations by teachers. Too often, school principals and other administrators cave in to such pressures and sell out their teachers, in turn pressuring them to yield to such parental power. It is a sad commentary I believe on the corruption of the school system, mostly by over-involved "helicopter" hovering parents obsessed with their children's success. They should spend more time helping their kids become better students, to read and study more, practice critical thinking, learn how to write more effectively and to practice being good citizens. Dedicated teachers can give up and burnout from such negative influences, when their administrators do not support their efforts as pupils and parents attack their abilities and motivation. I wish you the strength to survive these assaults-- teachers have to unite against such injustices. warm regards, Dr. Z.

	William Rhoades from California
	October 14, 2007 3:49 pm Long ago, when I first learned of the SPE, I thought the conclusions made from the study seemed "natural." I felt this because of my own experiences in life, and specifically my experiences in a Military HS. What the study brought to mind was Golding's Lord of the Flies novel. The Lucifer Effect evokes those same thoughts of the dynamics in that novel; and in particular The Beast. When the Milgram study happened in the early 60's, dumbfounded, we asked,"How can this happen?" When the SPE research came out, the same question was on the tip of our collective tongue. Now we have Abu Graib's litany of horrors and the same question haunts us. If one wants to understand "why it happens," certainly the definitive place to look would be Zimbardo's Lucifer Effect. Fundamentally, is man good or evil? Philosophers have pondered that idea since Plato. However, we live in the world of behaviors and not lofty towers of intellectual debate. At least in my mind, man has an equal propensity for good or evil. What he chooses at any given moment, is strongly influenced by social and situational influences. We should all very much look forward to Zimbardo's future research regarding Heroism and "good."
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo October 28, 2007 Dear William I appreciate your support of my research and the ideas presented in TLE. The big question now is once we appreciate the previously hidden power of situational forces, how does that change the way society copes with its various types of evil --beyond punishing perpetrators. Do we push a paradigm shift away from a simplistic dispositional notion that has ruled since the Inquistion to embrace a public health model? Such a model would view the evils in any society as a vector of disease whose source must be uncovered, and once identified can lead to strategies of prevention and innoculation. I am now making another arugment, that what the world needs now- beside love sweet love-- is many more heroes in our midst as the antidote to evil. Check out the Celebrating Heroism section of this site. Dr.Z.

	Lynne Martin from Indiana
	August 26, 2007 10:43 pm I have read the book and I agree with Dr. Zimbardo’s ‘bad barrel’ theories. However, I do not believe that ALL of the "trophy" photos taken by soldiers in Iraq have been destroyed. Their power would be too great. The potential for blackmail, media shock value, confirmation of revenge, and much more would make their total destruction unlikely and ADD to that the ease of duplication and the small size of media required to keep those photos. If I were a journalist, I would be hunting for more of the story.
	Reply from Dr. Zimbardo August 27, 2007 Dear Lynne As expert witness in the defense of S/Sgt Chip Frederick, I was allowed to see all of the many trophy photos, many hundreds of them, most worse than the dozen or so leaked to the media in 2004. The military and Bush administration have worked hard behind the scenes to prevent their exposure in part because they further implicate the military and civilian command structure that encouraged these MPs to "soften" up the detainees, to "take the gloves off," in prepping them for coercive interrogation by CIA and Military Intelligence operatives. Also these abuses went on for at least 3 months, who was watching the store? Where were any senior officers during this time. Joe Darby was given a CD with the hundreds of trophy photos by his buddy, actually 2 CDs that were making the rounds of the compound. Some soldiers had the image of the nude pyramid on their computer screen savers!! The media should be pressing harder for their release. Dr. Z.

	John Nirenberg from Vermont
	August 24, 2007 4:59 pm I finished reading the Lucifer Effect and was horrified at the behavior at Abu Ghraib (and at other prisons). The details of these events and the complicity of the administration up to and including Bush is extremely disturbing. I don't usually write comments to discussion groups but when I read Christina's comments on page 459, I decided I had to write. She says, “If you disobeyed, refused to continue, got paid and left silently, your heroic action would not prevent the next 999 participants from experiencing the same distress. It would be an isolated event without social impact unless it included going to the next step of challenging the entire structure and assumptions of the research.” In a sense even SPC Darby, whistleblower that he was, may ultimately be ignored in spite of the show trials. It is made worse because now we all know about these events and, as Nancy Pelosi says, "impeachment is off the table." Okay, given the public awareness about the abuses of the Bush administration - which are extensive, can we do more than ride out the administration's term of office as it persists in illegal and immoral behavior? Your readers have voted overwhelmingly that they believe the administration is guilty. What would Christina do?